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Case Management: A creative and flexible way to work for psychologists with Dr Shabnam Berry-Khan

Today I am talking to Dr Shabnam Berry Khan about her business, Psych Works. Shabnam is a Clinical Psychologist and member of the Do More Than Therapy membership so I have been wanting her to come on the podcast since I met her on a coaching call last year because she works in an area of psychology that I didn’t know much about and it sounds really exciting.

The highlights

 

  • Shabnam tells us how she got into the niche area of psychology led case management 01:02
  • Shabnam explains what case management is, and who it is there to help 04:42
  • Shabnam talks about what elements the work involves, and how that’s related to costings 08:61
  • We discuss how psychologists are well placed to carry out case management 11:00
  • Shabnam tells us how her business evolved after starting this type of work in an employed role 14:53
  • We talk about imposter syndrome and holding your own as a psychologist with other professions that seem more self assured 18:58
  • Shabnam tells us how she’s looking for more case management associates, and also those interested in broad range private practice within the medico-legal field, and what you need and don’t need for that 24:51
  • Shabnam tells us where people can find her if they want to connect 31:08

 

Links to find Shabnam

www.psychworks.org.uk

https://www.instagram.com/adminpsychworks.org.uk/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-shabnam-berry-khan-135a6753/

*******

 

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It is hard, no impossible, to think creatively and have the impact you should be having in your practice if you aren’t confident that you have a secure business. BUT it can be overwhelming to figure out exactly what you need to prioritise before those clients start coming in.

 

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*******

TRANSCRIPT

SPEAKERS

Shabnam Berry-Khan, Rosie Gilderthorp

 

Rosie Gilderthorp  00:01

Welcome to the Business of Psychology podcast, the show that helps you to reach more people, help more people and build the life you want to live by doing more than therapy. 

 

Rosie Gilderthorp  00:16

Today I’m talking to Dr. Shabnam Berry-Khan about her business, Psych Works. Shabnam is a clinical psychologist and a member of Do More Than Therapy, who I’ve been wanting to come on the podcast since I met her on a coaching call last year, because she works in an area of psychology that I really didn’t know much about, and it sounds really exciting. So welcome to the podcast Shabnam.

 

Shabnam Berry-Khan  00:38

Yeah, thanks, Rosie, that was lovely. Yeah, thanks for being here. Actually, it’s, it’s a really nice opportunity to talk a little bit about sort of an area of the application of psychology that I think people may have some misconceptions about. And, or may just not know an awful lot about. So I really appreciate the opportunity. So thank you.

 

Rosie Gilderthorp  01:02

Yeah, I’m really pleased that you’re here. Because, as I mentioned, as a member of Do More Than Therapy, I had the chance to kind of see some of your work, and you’re on the blogging challenge, and I could see some of the stuff that you’re writing about. But really, I don’t think I’d ever heard of case management before. Even though I’ve done, I’ve probably done a little bit and been managed by a case manager when I look back at it, because I’ve done a bit of treatment work for medico-legal, the medico-legal system. But yeah, I really didn’t understand anything about how that system works, it’s been fascinating to get to know you a bit. And I think you’ve got a really great example of a niche, because I believe that you’re the only psychology led case management service in the UK. Is that right? 

 

Shabnam Berry-Khan  01:46

I think we are and not by design, I have to say, as many great things, you know, may may may be, you know, maybe may may have come down that pathway, but very much so, it’s very unusual to find psychologists in the case management world, it’s not like I’m the only one, there are a number of us, a small handful actually, but you find that people are either case managers, or they are psychologists, and what we’ve tried to do is kind of combine the two. So the, the thing about the case management is that I fell into it anyway. So accidentally, having felt very oppressed, you know, in a sort of NHS role and thinking that oh, gosh, is this what clinical psychology is all about? So that took me about a year, year and a half to work out. This was very different to what I thought it would be like. And I saw an advert in a BPF magazine, one of the BPF publications at the time saying, you know, would you like to be a case manager and I thought, you know what, I’m just going do it. And I was working in a neurodevelopmental service at the time, so it felt like it wasn’t a massive leap into what is sort of brain injury, a lot of personal injury clients are brain injured. So we are talking about some, some very sort of neuro based interventions and thinking about people in a very sort of systemic way. And I, I just thought, I’m going to do it, I found out I was really… my friend, my colleague and I were the only team psychologists really doing it. And psychology was so misunderstood. I think. It’s probably the best way to describe it in the case management world. Because I guess, because psychologists don’t tend to do case management, because they, I think traditionally it’s come very much so from a background of practical functional, physical, rehabilitation. So a lot of case managers are OTs, physiotherapists, you do get a number that sort of social work, public social work, background, speech and language therapists, but not really anything that is like what we do in terms of our training. So when we joined, there were quite a few questions around, you know, how can a psychologist be helpful and I’m thinking how can we not be helpful? You know, from the individual to the system, working with carers, thinking about the professional network, holding all those dynamics that we know from the research does very much so facilitate or indeed impede the process of rehabilitation.

 

Rosie Gilderthorp  04:42

Yeah, so I mean, I think I can see so clearly how our skill set would be really valuable for that system. And but let’s go back a couple of paces. And could you just describe, you know, what case management is and the people that it’s there to help.

 

Shabnam Berry-Khan  04:59

Sure, that’s a good question. And I, sometimes I get, you know, often I think I know what the answer is. And then I think, oh gosh, it’s actually more nuanced than that, or it’s more complex than that. So on the in a very brief description, a case manager is someone who supports the client through their personal injury journey, their personal injury journey is one that has altered their life so significantly that pretty much every aspect of their life needs some kind of input. So a case manager supports that package of care and therapy very broadly speaking, in order to achieve those rehabilitation goals. The twist on that is that you are working very much so within that medico-legal framework. So you are very much so in touch with solicitors, if it’s an unsettled case, which means that the solicitors are still building the quantum, the financial claim element of the case, what that, you end up working very closely with them. In the event that the case is settled, and there perhaps is a deputy for someone who’s holding that claim money that has been awarded, it’s a horrible word, but awarded to the client, you then end up liaising with them very much so about what is required and why. So there’s a clinical element in terms of justification, in terms of being able to demonstrate the progress, the progress that the client would have with that support. And there’s an element of sort of the people management, if you like, of it, the care teams are in place, and they need to know what they’ve got to do. And there’s multidisciplinary teams that need to be chaired, and the input that they provide, and the minutes that you create as a result of those meetings and interactions need to be fed back in a way to the legal folk so they understand what’s going on, either to support the claim being built up, or to know that the money is being spent sensibly. Ultimately.

 

Rosie Gilderthorp  07:12

So that’s the element, isn’t it, which seems a bit different, because I think, you know, when you describe the role, having worked in learning disability, it’s kind of reminding me of the case coordination, care coordination role.

 

Shabnam Berry-Khan  07:25

Key-worker, I think as some people used to be called 

 

Rosie Gilderthorp  07:27

Yeah, it was different in several different teams I was in but but basically a person who oversees the package of care and checks that it’s, it’s meeting all of the identified needs. And I remember when we were a bit resistant about taking on that role, and I was particularly resistant was about costing things up. Because that felt like something I wasn’t equipped to do. And of course, sitting in an NHS job, you’re really not equipped, I had no idea, especially, you know, I was band seven I was like, right, I literally don’t have a clue how much it’s gonna cost to do this or that or the other. And it felt like something a social worker was better equipped to do than me. But is that, is that an element of the work that you’ve sort of had to develop over time?

 

Shabnam Berry-Khan  08:16

There is an element of costing for sure. But it’s not perhaps as you might imagine it to be in terms of, you know, kind of getting it right and getting it to the penny. So the pre… there isn’t a lot of pressure to to be able to, I guess, come up with that costing for that package of care and therapy. But there, because you’re often advised by the expert witnesses. So that’s an important distinction to make as well, that we you know, that case managers are… the work we do is shaped by those people who have the expertise and the specialisms to say, okay, I’ve met the client, albeit for two, three hours, something like this, I think for the lifetime of this client, they need a, b and c across their lifetime, and at the stage that they are now you would go to that part of their report and say, right, okay, they’re recommending a, b and c. So the costings are part of their report, what you have to do as a case manager is very much so find the right fit for the client and try and work within that very basic parameter that the expert has suggested. But of course, they’re not on the ground. So they don’t necessarily know that what they are recommending is appropriate or it may not be as easy to implement for various reasons, you know, COVID is a very good example. Everything has been thrown, costings are all over the place. Your job as a case manager is, is that very basic you know, at our job, you have to just communicate it. You have to say, look, we’re working with a speech and language therapist, for example, and this has happened, it’s been really tricky, you know, I appreciate that the costings are going to be different as a result or the or the costings are not necessarily different, but they’re going to be lagged in a way so, you know, they’re not going to start for three months, because of the circumstances that the family are in. So as long as you can communicate what’s going on on the ground, to those who are very much so pushing the paper around about the clients, you are, you know, you’re doing your job. And he might come back to you, those lawyer types, may come back to you and say, ah, could you get some costings, you know, and, and a better time scale? Fine, go ahead and do that, because you’ve been instructed to do that. And while it’s so, while there’s an element of proactivity, there is also some direction from the legal teams. So you know what you’re doing, you’re not left alone, really, with it. But it, but it is, you’ve got to have a little bit of savvy about it, I suppose, but you pick that up as you’re going along.

 

Rosie Gilderthorp  11:00

It just sounds, it sounds really fulfilling, and actually, you know, thinking about it, if I was in that horrific situation where somebody I cared about had been badly injured, knowing that there was somebody like you with your background, sort of putting together that package of care and overseeing it, would be hugely reassuring. Because you know, from the clinical side, where I’ve seen it go a little bit wrong it’s because the human side has been missed sometimes in the package. So I’m thinking of a client that I provided some psychological treatment for, had had a horrendous injury. And she was very young, she was only about 18. And the family were living in poverty. And my therapy room was only accessible by two buses, and she couldn’t afford the bus. And it’s obviously pre COVID so none of us had figured out how to do this particular type of work online, I doubt she would have had the tech anyway, to have been able to access it, but that, that made the treatment in accessible for her. And I went back to the solicitor who had instructed me and said, look I, she can’t afford to get here, can you release any more money? And I just didn’t hear back from them. Yeah, that’s the kind of thing which I’m like, that would not have happened if Shabnam had been there.

 

Shabnam Berry-Khan  12:25

No, it wouldn’t have, frankly. But actually, even anyone in a sort of coordinating role would have heard you because that’s the beauty as a treating therapist, you go to someone who isn’t exactly the purse string holder, who is almost an objective, other sort of overarching viewpoints person who can say actually, that is valid, that is necessary, and I would support that request, you know, from Dr. Rosie, because it is absolutely vital, and we need to do something about it. They’re more likely to hear what’s needed, you know, to do what’s required. Because I think solicitors are they are, they do want to do what they’re meant to do, which is help the client get back to the life level that they would have had, had it not been for the injury, and some of so passionate about it, which is amazing. But I think that human element that you highlighted is exactly what I think we as psychologists can very much say bring to the table. I’m not saying that OTs and speech and language therapists and physiotherapists and the likes, don’t have that human touch, but for us, it’s so second nature, it’s so inbuilt in any clinical work we do, as soon as someone has a need, an emotional need, we switch into place and we just get it. And we’re able to see beyond that emotional need to perhaps the impact it’s having on parents, or partner, or siblings, often the other victims of this whole process, sort of unheard victims, I just think it’s… you’ve got to be able to hold all of that in mind. And you know, on again, on a very basic level, we know that family functioning is affected by anything, and certainly something as big as a personal injury will absolutely be a big thing that can impact on family functioning, you can, you’re not going to get the goals that you want, it’s going to have an impact on you as a treating clinician, it’s going to have an impact on you as a case manager and certainly the legal folk are not going to be able to get the best claim they can get that client. So your role as a case manager with a psychological background with psychological training is absolutely crucial to me, in my opinion, in terms in terms of getting the absolute best and the broadest of need that this client had, that any client has really.

 

Rosie Gilderthorp  14:53

So you mentioned that you started out doing this work in an employed role. How did that evolve? into the business that you have now?

 

Shabnam Berry-Khan  15:02

Yeah, I was actually an associate for a case management company, quite a big one, from the research I did at the time. And I learned an awful lot with them, I have to say, and but it gets to a, I think it gets to a point where you think, gosh, bigger organisations in case management, as I understand it, they are often led, not necessarily by the clients experience and the clients needs, much more by sort of admin structures. So, in the same way we’ve got Ofsted for schools, we have CQC, which is the Care Quality Commission for case management now. It’s a relatively new thing, but some of the bigger organisations have already had CQC registration for a number of years, and I joined an organisation that very much so had that. It was, there was lots of paper pushing, there was lots of needing to understand the client on paper, which is massively minimising, it just doesn’t capture all of the nuances and the, the softness of the work that you would do, in, you know, where the clients who have such significant and widespread trauma in its entire family system. And, for me, I remember feeling quite, I just felt like that’s not really the practitioner I want to be. And I, as it happens, I was running the the psychology side of the business, so Psych Works Associates was born, while I was an associate still, at this case management organisation, because, you know, as I was sort of talking more about psychology, I was getting kind of more referral, which is brilliant, and kind of felt like I was really doing a good thing for case management, getting psychology known and, you know, value out there and in this medico-legal world, as a treatment, as opposed to, as we said before expert witness work. And it just, it really just occurred to me that if I want to be the kind of clinician I want to be, marrying up the psychology, thinking about psychology in case management, I’ve got to, I’ve got to be my own thing. Because there isn’t anything like me, as far as I could see. So, and that’s, that’s kind of the background to it. So Psych Works has now got an extra branch of case management. So psychology informs case managers. And so we’ve got a sort of double thing going on, it seems, again, not necessarily by design as such, but it sort of really works and people seem to get it.

 

Rosie Gilderthorp  17:47

Yeah, and it sounds like a design, it sounds like you knew what you wanted to see in the world, and you tried to create it. And I think you know, in Psychology Business School, that’s the thing that I’ve encouraged people to start with. But if you could create any change in the world, what would you create and kind of work with that as your vision. And make sure everything you do make sense. And it sounds like that’s exactly what you did, you like the world should have psychology lead case management, as well as psychology treatment. So I’m going to create a job for myself where I get to do both.

 

Shabnam Berry-Khan  18:20

Yes. Yeah, ultimately, absolutely. It feels very authentic to me, which obviously is I know, that’s the bottom line in many ways of the Psychology Business School, that, you know, you’ve got to smell what sells for you without the risk of sounding a bit like Alan Sugar. You know, what makes sense to you? And, yeah, it took me a while, I think, to get there. But that was a confidence thing I think, as much as it was a sort of trying to piece it all together to make sense. And to you know, understand how it fits with me and my value, but it really, it really has been yeah, accidentally by design then, if you like,

 

Rosie Gilderthorp  18:58

Yeah, I mean, I was gonna ask that she on an emotional level. I kind of… a lot of the professions that you’re mixing with, I imagine, are a little bit more self assured as professions. I think clinical psychology often has imposter syndrome sort of baked into it. I’ve never really met a psychologist that doesn’t struggle with impostor syndrome. And I think, as a profession we do. So what was that like kind of coming in and having to hold your own with professions like, you know, solicitors where they really seem to know who they are. 

 

Shabnam Berry-Khan  19:32

Yeah, or certainly are very good at wearing a suit and pretending to give the impression that they know. It’s really, it’s really, it was tough at the beginning, you do, you know, feel that sense of inferiority or give them that that sort of position of power and superiority. And I’ve got to say, it might sound a bit sort of, yeah, it might not be the right thing to say, but I’m gonna say it anyway, but I gradually started getting invited to networking events. Lawyers are really good at that, they’ve got a lot of money, they hang out in the city, it’s all very glitzy and glamoury, you know, canapes being handed around. So I thought, oh, I’ll go to one of those, although I’m absolutely…

 

Rosie Gilderthorp  20:15

Get a canape.

 

Shabnam Berry-Khan  20:16

Yeah, exactly. You know, and I don’t drink you see, so this is, uh, this is tricky, because, you know, I’m thinking or, you know, what am I, what’s my thing to, like, get me relaxed a bit? It didn’t matter, everyone was pissed. You know. And they were telling me their family story, their personal family stories, and they were giving me hugs and kisses, and it was so nice, but it was, it absolutely brought down that sense of anxiety about this field, actually, they’re just human as well. And the more you get to know them, you realise that they just want the same things as you do, they want to do the best they can do for this client. They want their client to say, gosh, that was a lovely, you know, solicitor that I had that, you know, he was really he or she was really, you know, human and down to earth, and, and, you know, they, they just got me as a person. And, and they don’t necessarily know how to do that, actually. Because they are, you know, they have this sort of image that the profession requires of them, same kind of problem in a way, you know, we’re trying to break out of our sort of shyness, if you like, and they’re trying to kind of break out of their sort of formality in order to just be human and be themselves. And, you know, again, from a psychological, being a psychologist, and having that understanding, and just being able to allow that space to be real, I’ve had some amazing conversations with solicitors. And when I first you know, when you first read their credentials on LinkedIn or something like that, you think, oh, my god, they’re a partner in a really big firm. I’m just little me. But yeah, I think if you’re able to present yourself in that human way, it’s amazing and how, how quickly, solicitors join you, they are desperate to join you there. And it helps them with their clients. So yeah, it’s It isn’t easy all the time. But I think again, that’s the, managing that imposter syndrome and and I think he just has to kind of throw yourself in it a little bit and do a little bit of reframing and a bit of, you know, you know, the usual sorts of sport challenging that we do to realise, actually, they’re they’re they’re all right. You know.

 

Rosie Gilderthorp  22:33

I love, I love that, because it’s yet another reason that we should all go networking. Because I do, I feel like I harp on about this a lot, because I think it helps you with marketing, I think it helps you getting to know the people that you’re trying to help. And, and I know we’ve talked about, when you’re doing the blogging challenge, you know, who are you writing a blog for? And what problems do they face? And you were mentioning, you know, ah they have problems with clients not coming to appointments and not acting in their own best interests. And those are the things which stressed them out and worried them. And I was well of course, you’re really useful for things like that, I can really imagine then having a beer with you, or beer and a soft drink, and thinking through kind of, you know, how do I help this person? How do I help people that struggle with attending, maybe people who are intimidated by my office, and so many ways in which we could bring some really useful informal insights?

 

Shabnam Berry-Khan  23:30

Absolutely. Jargon busting is a massive one, I think solicitors almost get caught up with the sort of legalistic way to explain the funds and how to ma…, you know, how they’re managed. And I mean money in general is a topic that sort of shuts people down. But when you’re explaining it in terms of this massive claim that is being built, and we’ve got to get it right, and the spend has to be, you know, under, justified, and it has to be accounted for pretty much to every penny, by the, by the by the specialists at the legal, on the legal end. Yeah, a client is just not going to engage with that. So, and often they think, well, I’ve said it once or twice at least to this client, how are they not understanding how to budget? And I’m thinking well, you know, you can look at it in different ways really, you can look at it is, you know, jargon, you could look at it from a CFP model, you know, they’re talking about the trauma, and it may well be that spending is part of their sort of maladaptive soothing mechanism. You know, it’s, there are so many ways to unpick it. And I see how you’re doing it, but maybe there’s a different way of doing it, here are some tips. Actually, on the back of that, that is why I set up a personal injury case managers community on LinkedIn…

 

Rosie Gilderthorp  24:51

Yes, I was going to ask you about that because I know that you’re looking for more case management associates at the moment. Is that right?

 

Shabnam Berry-Khan  24:57

Yeah, well actually either or to be honest with you. Yes, if people want to join our case management group, it would be amazing, because like I say, we are a bit of a niche. And equally if people want to are interested in kind of being, you know, getting their sort of creative juices flowing in what is effectively, you know, very broad range, private practice, within a medico-legal field, not answerable to the courts, I just like to make that clear, answerable very much so to the clients and the solicitors, who then have to be answerable to the courts, but you as a practitioner do not have to be. You know, we’re very, very grateful and willing to talk to people who who might have that interest. It’s a really great way to get into the private field, you know, you don’t have to have a clinic space, you don’t, you just need to have your basic insurances in place and your ICO and all the stuff that you talk about in your business school Rosie, set, you know set the basics are but paperwork wise and the rest, we cover, including supervision and you know, that medico-legal specialism, so you know, you’re not ever left alone. I’m very happy to put you in touch, anyone who’s interested, in touch with associates who do work with us. But yeah, but the, that sort of psychology angle not only applies to sort of solicitors, it also applies to case managers. Because, you know, they’re often caught in the middle of trying to liaise with a deputy or a litigating solicitor who wants to form a relationship with a client, and you’re the sort of in between person, and if you don’t have those psychological ideas about you, it can make the relationship a little bit strained, and, you know, avoidance, you know, you talk about, you hear often case managers saying, oh yeah it’s that client calling again, and it’s not like I don’t have that feeling sometimes. But I, you know, I feel like I’ve got skills that can help me navigate much more competently through that perhaps, bur the, the group that I’ve set up on LinkedIn is very much so to invite case managers, and eventually, I think it probably will broaden out to anyone in personal injury, to think about how psychology and psychological thinking can be helpful to that very basic idea that when you’ve got a good therapeutic relationship, whatever your field is, you pretty much can achieve whatever your goals are, however which way you’re going to go about it, because the relationship counts for what 80% of you know, the sort of success, you know, success factors so y’know…

 

Rosie Gilderthorp  27:36

I can just imagine that being so valuable, because when I’ve worked in a multidisciplinary team, and been like, the psychologist, often a lot of the value it comes at those like water cooler moments, doesn’t it? When somebody has just come off a difficult phone call, and, you know, understandably, their threat system’s in play, and they’re like, why does that person just make my life difficult? And you’re like, let’s think about why they might make your life difficult. Like, what what could that be about that isn’t because they hate you? Or it’s those kind of like, reflective moments, and if you can provide an online space for that, for people who are working in this field, that maybe don’t have access to psychological thinking, that sounds so so valuable for people.

 

Shabnam Berry-Khan  28:24

Yeah, I think so. And I hope so. I mean, it does to me, and I think it’s it’s, that I can see if you’ve not been trained, you know, grown up in it as a professional, you can find that probably quite scary. So I’m taking a very gradual approach, knowing full well that we don’t want to scare anyone away, but dropping in that idea of being reflective, and that’s okay, and being sort of, I suppose, honest to yourself, not necessarily to everyone else, but even if someone goes away from reading a post in the LinkedIn group and thinks, oh but actually, yeah, that, that’s probably true for me a little bit. But I’m not going to declare that openly in the group yet, or ever or whatever. But actually, just it’s a personal thing, it’s a very private thing for a lot of people. And I think, I suppose the case management world doesn’t really have that built in, because there it isn’t a case management qualification, there isn’t an MSc or, you know, anything, actually, that case management can hang its hat on that says, you know, that is us, that is what we do, and everyone kind of gets that. It’s very much though a sort of make it up as you’re going along. And people, you know, there are obviously professional bodies, like the British Association of Brain Injury Case Management or the UK Society of Case Management, who help shape and think about professional standards, but there isn’t an academic route to it so, so very much so there’s a licence to kind of give what you’ve got because at some point, it will be useful. And I supposed I’m, I’ve learned that and I’m accepting it and running with it.

 

Rosie Gilderthorp  30:05

Which is just brilliant to hear. I wish more mental health professionals were able to see how valuable they are in routes that are not necessarily the one they envisaged when they started training. I think, you know, probably, you like me hadn’t heard of case management when you were doing your training. It just doesn’t come up does it that we have a rule in our minds that we expect to travel. But actually, sometimes when, for one reason or another, and for many of us, there is frustration with the system that we’re in, you start to look more widely, actually, there’s so many ways that we can have a big impact. And it sounds like your business really does have a big impact for a lot of people. So thank you so much for letting us in on the secret of case management because I think a lot of people listening to this won’t have known about it before. And I’m sure that there are going to be people that really want to connect with you after this. So what would be the best way for people to find you if they do want to connect with you?

 

Shabnam Berry-Khan  31:08

Yeah, yeah, I’m on LinkedIn. And that’s where I’m hanging out these days online. So Dr. Shabnam Berry-Khan, and our website is a good way to get hold of me and that linked in both the case management and the psychology work that we do. So that’s www.psychworks.org.uk. And I guess on there is our contact details, so rather than say them now, I very much so urge you to have a look at the website, because it does, it can answer quite a few questions, perhaps or reaffirm some of the things that I’ve said so…

 

Rosie Gilderthorp  31:44

Brilliant. And I will link to all of that in the show notes as well. So everything will be there, you just need to, I’ve been trying to describe to people actually how to find the show notes. I’ve realised that not everybody knows where they are. So if you’re in your podcast app, then you just scroll up, and the show notes shall appear. And that’s where all these links are that I refer to. Yes. I realised my husband didn’t know where they were the other day, and I thought, actually, if you don’t know, there’s probably lots of other people that don’t know. So swipe up, and you shall find the show notes. Okay, it’s been a real pleasure, thank you so much Shabnam.

 

Shabnam Berry-Khan  32:19

Thank you, Rosie. Thanks for the opportunity.

 

Rosie Gilderthorp  32:22

Before you go, I just wanted to check something out with you. Because I don’t know if this is just me. But do you sometimes wake up at two o’clock in the morning, worried that you’ve made a terrible error that’s going to bring professional ruin upon you and disgrace your family? I’m laughing now. But when I first set up in private practice, I was completely terrified that I’ve missed something really big when I was setting up my insurance or data protection practices. Even now, three years in, I sometimes catch myself wondering if I’ve really covered all the bases properly. And it’s hard. No, actually, it’s impossible, to think creatively and have the impact you should be having in your practice, if you aren’t confident that you have a secure business underneath you. But it can be really overwhelming to figure out exactly what you need to prioritise before those clients start coming in. So I’ve created a free checklist plus resources list to take the thinking out of it. Tick off every box and you can see your clients confident in the knowledge that you have everything in place for your security and theirs. You can download it now from psychologist.drrosie.co.uk/client-checklist, and the link is in the show notes. 

 

Rosie Gilderthorp  33:35

Thank you for listening to this week’s episode of the Business of Psychology podcast. If you share my passion for doing more than therapy, then make sure you come over and join my free Do More Than Therapy Facebook community where you can work on getting your big ideas off the ground with like minded psychologists and therapists. I’d also love it if you could leave the show a five star review wherever you listen to your podcasts. It’ll help more of the people who need it to find it. See you next week for more tips and inspirational stories to help you do more than therapy.